Libya why are we there

Zenko and others never make clear how civilians could have been protected as long as Qaddafi was waging war on them. Rather, we would compare it with what we judge, to the best of our ability, the most likely alternative outcome would have been had the U.

There was no end in sight. After early rebel gains, Qaddafi had seized the advantage. Still, he was not in a position to deal a decisive blow to the opposition. Nowhere in the Arab Spring era has one side in a military conflict been able to claim a clear victory, even with massive advantages in manpower, equipment, and regional backing. The most likely outcome, then, was a Syria-like situation of indefinite, intensifying violence.

For instance, after leaving the Obama administration, Philip Gordon, the most senior U. In Libya, the U. In Syria, the U. The problem here is that U. The current civil war in Libya began in May —a full two and a half years later. To argue that the current conflict in Libya is a result of the intervention, one would basically need to assume that the outbreak of civil war was inevitable, irrespective of anything that happened in the intervening 30 months.

While perhaps less sexy, the U. This combination exacerbated tribal and regional divisions while making power sharing even more difficult. Finally, the U. Yet Libya quickly tumbled off the American agenda.

There was also an assumption that the Europeans would do more. This was more than just a hope; it was an organizing principle of Obama administration engagement abroad. This may be the way the world should operate, but as a set of driving assumptions, this part of the Obama doctrine has proven to be wrong at best, and rather dangerous at worst. The U. Even President Obama himself would eventually acknowledge the failure to stay engaged.

According to the Libya Body Count, around 4, people have so far been killed over the course of 22 months of civil war. In Syria, the death toll is about times that, with more than , killed , according to the Syrian Center for Policy Research. Would that undermine support for the original intervention? It was wrong because the decision to intervene in the first place was not justified, being based as it was on faulty premises regarding weapons of mass destruction.

Libya is not a safe country—we hear that a lot. It has been proven time and time again. Yet I still believe many people do not grasp the true meaning of it. In December [], the MSF medical team received a phone call: There was a woman in the emergency room at Tripoli University Hospital, but doctors there were refusing to treat her because she was undocumented. We took her to the referral clinic and transferred her to intensive care almost immediately. Her condition was dire. She needed dialysis, but MSF does not have a dialysis machine and we could not figure out a way for her to receive such treatment at the hospital.

After few days, she passed away. We never knew where she was from or who she was. They cannot live a normal life. If your employer decides not to pay you, there is nothing you can do about it. As you walk back home from work, tired and frustrated, you might be arrested and taken to a detention center.

When I met [year-old Hasan] he was staring at his feet. It is disgusting. What person would force another to live like this? I asked him what happened, and he told me it is from hard manual work. He came to Libya to work, to send money back home to help his family. I wrote a CSIS commentary on it, accordingly.

And frankly I think that more people should be interested because I mean this is a strategically located country. Now, one can say that there was stability on the Gaddafi during the time that he was in charge.

Bulent Aliriza: It was sort of the piece of the grave, whoever opposed them was either killed or forced into exile or imprisoned. But there has not been stability since he's been overthrown. And the Arab Spring of which the change of regime in Libya was a part, has really turned into an Arab winter from one end of the Middle East to the other, including in Syria where there's still this ongoing civil war.

And the outcome of the current conflict in Libya, I think as I said, deserves more attention for a number of reasons. Bulent Aliriza: I mean one is whoever controls that, will be a player in the Mediterranean basin and will be able to either lead the country through stability, avoiding the kind of problems that the country has created for its neighbors in the Arab world, as well as for its neighbors to the North.

Beyond the Mediterranean, like uncontrolled, illegal migration, terrorism, and it is a factor in the oil picture. The Libyan sweet crude oil is important. Because of its proximity, it is relatively cheap compared to other sources of oil that come from elsewhere. And we'll see how much attention it will get as the situation worsens. Bob Schieffer: Is there an American presence there is still? I mean we all remember Benghazi and the awful things that happened there when Americans died.

It became an issue in the campaign and it is fact, is still an issue for the Trump folk. Who's there? Bulent Aliriza: Not too many Americans. The killing of the ambassador, Ambassador Stevens occurred in , he had actually gone out to Libya even before the civil war was over and had established a presence in the country and became the first ambassador. He was directed by the administration, the Obama administration, to go to Benghazi to find out what was going on and he was killed by a mob.

And that led to the disenchantment of the Obama administration, which frankly was not that interested in staying in Libya beyond the overthrow of Gaddafi. It really was the origin of the phrase, "leading from behind" that the Obama team kept on using, to explain their foreign policy.

Now Obama subsequently confirmed or admitted that not remaining engaged in Libya was one of his biggest regrets.

The US maintained a presence for a little while longer. Bulent Aliriza: There was some degree of interest in the counter terrorism operations. So there were special forces that were sent. Drones were used both in Sirte and in Derna to root out and eliminate ISIS elements, but even that has now been taken off the board. There are some oil companies that still maintain an interest there.

Although they're engaging in minimal activities because of the civil war. Now you remember all the way back, some of the biggest companies like Exxon and Nelson Bunker Bunt from Texas were involved, Occidental was very much involved in Libya before Gaddafi and after Gaddafi, but there isn't much of an American presence there now.

Andrew Schwartz: Thanks Bob. Bulent can you explain to us, who are the warring factions in Libya right now? Who are the opposing factions? What do they want and who does the US support? Bulent Aliriza: What a great question, but unfortunately it doesn't have a simple answer. For the sake of argument, and for simplicity's sake, we could say there are two sides.

And that's the officially recognized government of Libya. But that recognition is almost meaningless because the writ of the government in Tripoli doesn't go far outside Tripoli. Which is in fact, besieged by the forces of the other side, which is led by this very interesting character by the name of Haftar, who was a general in Gaddafi's army, was captured in Chad, the CIA then a spirited him of the country, brought him to Northern Virginia where he stayed, became a citizen and after Gaddafi was overthrown, he flew back-.

Bulent Aliriza: Yep. He contributed to political campaigns. He voted in elections and to this day retains an American passport that he refuses to give up. Bulent Aliriza: Never denied. In fact, he got involved in an effort, a secret effort by the CIA to overthrow Gaddafi, which failed. He continued to live in northern Virginia, right up to Gaddafi's overthrow, and then he flew to Libya, ostensibly as he says, without the blessing or support of the CIA and then mounted this operation and put together these forces, which he calls the Libyan National Army, LNA, which is the other side, Andrew, of the war.

And he's actually captured most of the country. Andrew Schwartz: And so he's based in Benghazi and he's working his way towards Tripoli as we talk. Bulent Aliriza: Well, Libya is a very improbable country. I mean we don't have time to go into its history, but it's really made up of three different parts.

Which, as I said, very different to each other. I mean there's Tripolitania, Tripoli, to the west is the capitol of the UN recognized government. There's Cyrenaica to the east next door to Egypt with Benghazi as its main city. And then there is Fazzan, the third province, which really has much more in common with a sub Saharan countries like Niger and Chad than with the rest of Libya. And essentially what we have is a war between Cyrenaica, where Haftar is based and Tripolitania because all the way back to the Romans and Venetians, these two provinces have never really got on.

Bulent Aliriza: The Italians invaded the country in , put them together. That's where the name Libya comes from. The Italians called it the fourth shore. It was their real crown jewel of their empire under Mussolini. And then the allied forces took over, in Ran it and then gave on the UN auspices, independence to Libya in But honestly, you cannot really understand the fighting between these two forces without reference to its past.

Where really this is one of the most improbable states, certainly in the region, if not in the world. Bulent Aliriza: Well, that's where the complication Back in April, President Trump called Khalifa Haftar at the urging of President Sisi of Egypt, whom President Trump has called my favorite dictator, gave full support to him in his effort to root out the Islamist terrorists.

In essence, backing his campaign.